P.S. Jesus approaching Ladakh as a youth Oil painting by J. Michael Spooner The Best of the Sons of Men; Ancient scrolls reveal that Jesus spent seventeen years … Chrestus was a fairly common name. You also have to accept, like many of the early christians, that the real founder of what would become todays pagan christianity is James the Just. You just named other sources. In his later years, he went to preach in the Himalayan country of Nepal, and finally returned to Palestine at the age of 29 (chapter 9, verse 1). Were they purposely removed early on for political reasons and suppressed? Unlike Goldilocks, his life has a context that is well known and is established as fact. However, saying Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist or that he was crucified is as theological as saying, "Yesterday, I went to church." This thoughtful Christian book presents a lighthearted view of life's experiences and how they relate to the message of Jesus. Just a few words then nothing, or did he speak more? Well - I think he should look like me albeit a little taller and with more hair. -Did Jesus talk to anyone while carrying the cross or not? This is only one treatment. Read between the lines...and then make up stuff? Why not read up on this before making such statements. Of what Englishism is that? How can they make a more accurate video? The gospels are just stories created by unknown writers at an unknown time [most likely in the second century], not actual history. If you say definitely that "Jesus" did not exist, you go up against the consensus of those who know more about the matter than you and prove them wrong. Character development is a modern concept which was unknown in the literature of the time and before, cf. (Compare Matt and Paul's ideas on that) The Lost Years of Jesus: Documentary Evidence of Jesus' 17-Year Journey to the East by Prophet, Elizabeth Clare and a great selection of related books, art and collectibles available … That's what angers people the most, because it humbles them. He must have had other sources which are now lost. There is a fine article on Jesus' existence on Wikipedia which I suggest you read, along with Dr. Ehrman's book "Did Jesus Exist?" So Josephus' application of such a title to James the Just is irrelevant. You forgot one thing after taxes--don't make trouble. I was there waiting on the caravan merchants so that I can leave. Whether the bible is looked at as Gods word given to man so Jesus actions and teachings can be emulated- or a narrative to inspire readers- or even a piece of propaganda- why do the writers compilers and translators of the books leave huge gaps in the story, and in some cases admit that things are known to the writers/compilers but omitted on purpose? There's a fine article on Wikipedia--not that you'll go to it. I can't speak for Dr Ehrman, he doesn't assert tha tthe Samaritan prophet was "Jesus" probably because he doesn't believe it--and while I'm no biblical scholar, I don't believe it either. That there is no substance in your behalf just arguments. The DSS's clearly explain the codes. "Jesus'" baptism and crucifiction are not theological beliefs, but agreed to by the bulk of biblical historians. Considering the summary proceeding of "Jesus'" crucifiction as described in the synoptic gospels (esimtated at about 12 hours from arrest to punishment) and considering what a negligible nit "Jesus" was in his own lifetime, I can believe that he, along with many others crucified like him, were not included in the Roman annals we have--and by the way, Jesus was not crucified for performing miracles. Hmm, how many 'Trinities' do you know? Shame there were no recording devices or printing presses at the time. A doc of perhaps more revealing nature is one titled "The Lost Gospels" where the years of Jesus' childhood and adolescence pop up. Was Jesus a Palestinian Jew? I am curious. Just a thought for you. And he does himself, and all serious, honest scholars, a terrible disservice by making unfounded, extremist, patently dogmatic claims about the historicity of Jesus. Both extremes are based in repulsive psychology - no doubt majorly sociopathic - even psychopathic. I've often thought that there is the possibility that a man named Jesus, could have had the same qualities, whose life was cut short, but was remembered by a small group of followers. Those people we know for sure died, not to mention the others wounded that do/have had to live with it. These followers were so affected by what he said and the manner in which he said them that they would talk about the man and his message to anyone who would listen. It guest starred Bette Davis and as I was watching it I marvelled at the dignity in which she carried herself and thought that she was another great example of the type of person that I had posted about. When the Old Testament was translated into Greek (the Septuagint), for some reason, the word "almah" got translated as "parthenos," meaning virgin--and thus the idiotic doctrine of virgin birth with all its later trappings. I just had quite the session on another doc and it just amazed me how an observation could turn into an entire conspiracy to subjugate and maybe kill most of the citizens of this planet. The Jesus character of the gospels never existed as historical person, a fact that is confirmed by mainstream biblical scholarship. Ever wondered why a Joseph is always the head of the household for instance? After viewing product detail pages, look here to find an easy way to navigate back to pages you are interested in. You'll see if you do it honestly without bias either way (unlike your claims about myself), that 'different points of view' does not explain away the contradictions at all. “Your assertion that none of the secular authors I've mentioned holds any information to support the existence of "Jesus'" ministry and the crucifixtion displays an ignorance not only of these sources but of the relevant portions of the bible and how these sources relate to them and vice versa.”. I guess none of those good historians would have agreed to do the film if they had used his real name. However, any serious scholar would know about this letter and then know why they should not ever use something so incredibly tenuous as Tacitus "Chrestus" mention as any sort of reference to the existence of a historical Jesus. Here's the interesting thing. : Summit University Press, 1987. This book is a part of this tendency which began at the cusp of the Aquarian Age. Bethulah is the Hebrew word for virgin. whether or not they exist isn't as important as their writings and scientific discoveries or would shake world faith. Not very forthcoming! To calculate the overall star rating and percentage breakdown by star, we don’t use a simple average. He returned to India after the so-called 'resurrection'. Missing Lenses: How reading scripture with the first century church can help us fin... Jesus and the Lost Goddess: The Secret Teachings of the Original Christians. Nothing there. When I first started reading this book I was very skeptical. All we actually can know about the historical Joshua/Jesus is this note from Josephus in his Antiquities of the Jews - Book XVIII - Chapter IV - Verse I: "BUT the nation of the Samaritans did not escape without tumults. That's not very fair on us now, as we have absolutely no way of knowing what was said or originally written about what was supposedly said and done. That he was effective in phrasing the feelings that the average person held about the leadership could be the reason that he was remembered and a cult formed around him. And that's without even addressing the even bigger problem, that being we have no way of knowing what was originally written. As I posted to Kateye, when intelligence and education enter, charisma exits, except perhaps for watching a movie or play and then its only ephemeral. I understand why some people, even some otherwise very intelligent scholars, really WANT and NEED to believe in the historicity of Jesus. His work was based, in large part, to his own definition of "physical attractiveness", or his own interpretation of that "beauty." He's the free thinker. these history channel documentaries, too much bla bla bla and no answers..... All the information we have about Euclid comes from writings dating from at least 200 years later, but no one doubts his existence, the same with all the information we have about Petronius, Lucretius and Manilius. Were they distroyed? Canonical Gospels record the history of Jesus until he was 12 and then start again at the age of 30, but the intervening 18 years of his youth is unaccounted for. But I will take a day out tomorrow and manually collate references from the synoptics (DSS) if that will make you happy. Bring your club to Amazon Book Clubs, start a new book club and invite your friends to join, or find a club that’s right for you for free. Are you negating the entire course of human history in that one statement? It's contradictions rule out that possibility. In other words, the characters emerged fully formed. While much of his life is imaginary, the consensus of biblical scholars is that he existed, but AS A MAN ONLY. I BOW to your celebrated Discus intelligence and ability to use spell check!! Oh, I've been aware of the myth sources for a long time. I'm with you roberttallen1. That's as much of it as I can remember right now. Now here "Base your life on lies if you wish, but don't BS others about it, it's bad enough you BS yourself." But I had to understand why things happened the way it did, for non the less there is no other way to even believe that one is a better peson than the other for we all do the same things differently. The Lost Years of Jesus: Documentary Evidence of Jesus' 17-Year Journey to the East by Elizabeth Clare Prophet starting at $0.99. as always. Why has the fact that Jesus travelled to India and Tibet been suppressed for so long? You have misspelled sparse twice so far. Are you familiar with the protogospels, not that they're any more believable than the canon? It's your crutch to keep you going. We've been through John 8:48. Only an ignorant person would use any of the secular authors mentioned as “proof” of the existence of the Jesus in the gospel saga, and that is something no serious scholar would do. The debate continues to rage over where the young Christ was during these … Your middle part explains your dependence and 'dead man's grip' on your beliefs. Directed by Richard Bock. You're not good at it. ;) IF you actually did 'go back in time' to understand it, you'd find yourself in a political situation that absolutely helps make sense of your Bible and it's absurd claims. Like Ehrman, I have no agenda other than historicity and scholarship. Any up to date debater should know this, do you? . “This post and your last clearly demonstrate that you are not up to date on the subject in any way, shape or form and I resent the snow job as much as I resent your characterization of historical beliefs as theological ones (i.e., faith-based). The church has owned this debate for nearly two millennia, and church influence, directly or indirectly, has largely decided what should be accepted or not as evidence. -Who was already in the tomb? He did say Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book XVIII, Chapter IV, Verse I--not that I find Josephus the most trustworthy source based upon the man's background and a number of disputed passages; however, in some instances, he's all we have and he does paint a picture of what life was like at the time. Well, I already called him crazy. waiting in the desert in that lodging area where the travelers be. why can't a person say that the bible was written long after the life of this man, there are multiple unknown authors, many of the passages in the bible today are not in the earliest writings, not all the books even claim to be first hand accounts, we know the NT has been translated many times, we have no original copies, the writings contradict each other/history and logic and much of the NT requires interpretation? The rest of your post is gibberish. You made the statement about John Allegro (and yes, I know who he was), now it's up to you to explain what he has to do with this cockamamy idea. It was a TV diss of Jesus in my opinion. 1. -Which also means, was the last supper the Passover Meal or not? I have indeed read "Did Jesus Exist" and a great many other books and papers by Erhman. self relief that bad things don't happen to good people for no reason. I never said James was Jesus, I said he was the best candidate for the title “historical Christ”. Consider this your second warning, any more and you are out! Much has been said about it. I´ve read him, Pliny the younger, Suetonius, Josephus and other writers a thousand times and never seen what you claim. Christians, also, should know this since it is specifically mentioned in the New Testament by Paul when he wrote back to the Christans in Jerusalem. There's no stories you've said so far that I've not heard many times before. Perhaps that is what you do with the rest of the secular sources you mention too? In other words we don't have different sources; yet no one denies that these people lived, except perhaps you. Paramahansa Yogananda. It can be seen on many other early Jesus frescos. There was a problem loading your book clubs. It MUST be true!!!one!1!! Calling it lame is not a rebuttal, but a smoke screen. What was Jesus doing and where was he as a young man- and the 40 days after the resurrection? Before you start calling me a religious nut, know that I am an atheist. Do you also say Frodorick? I don't play games. Like most historians of the time, Tacitus rarely provides his sources probably because in his day, history was looked at differently than in ours. I wish people would think before posting, just a bit of lateral thought now and then, just a bit. Your assertion that the volatile situation in Palestine implies biblical codes is idiotic does in fact alarm me. When Marry is visited by the Angel Gabriel she is in fact receiving a specific human visitor from the Jerusalem or Kumran temple (depends on the interpretation). Too many people take the Bible too seriously as absolute truth. Now, can you keyboard intelligently? Mainstream biblical scholarship doesn´t seem to be of any particular interest for you, judging by your comments. Back to the topic, Christianity. Of course not! Assuming there is a god, how do you know that "Jesus" was god's son? We can dismiss all secular sources, except Josephus comment on the samaritan prophet Joshua/Jesus, since none of them provide any information concerning a historical Jesus. As long as the goal is to discover reality, stupid questions should be heartily encouraged, and most of all in the totally unqualified, we'd have no dissent and possibly no progress without them. That is the place you want to look for the fight over which of the 40+ gospels would eventually get whittled down to the 4 we have now. Strangely enough it could be used by mainstream biblical scholars to "prove" that a historical Jesus had a career as a burglar in Rome (49 years before his alleged "birth") and that a secular source also confirms this information. 4. when are we going to stop depicting Jesus as caucasian? Hereupon our rulers, supposing, as the case proved to be, that this was a sort of divine fury in the man, brought him to the Roman procurator, where he was whipped till his bones were laid bare; yet he did not make any supplication for himself, nor shed any tears, but turning his voice to the most lamentable tone possible, at every stroke of the whip his answer was, "Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" Secondly, for earlier examples of virgin birth, see Horis, Isi and Osiris. The reason the boy Jesus gave this response to his mother Mary, after she asked her son, what was you're intention of not informing us ( his parents, Joseph and Mary, ) of his leaving them, to go to wherever God sends him as a child ( Jeremiah 1:7 ) into the distant lands with the traveling merchants who makes their return to the shores of Jerusalem once every three years, ( 2 Chronicles 9:21 ) without letting his parents know what he was not to tell no one, including them, his siblings, the priests, the officials, nor the king: Mary said, to a now, 29 year old Jesus, your father and I turned our heads to talk to you and we notice you were gone. I was also a functioning opiod addict and so in my ignorance I called out Jesus on his legendary ability to perform miracles. Well, as usual I'm going to try to answer my own question and see if it's at Guttenberg, or some other archive; unless he wrote it out by hand. How do you reconcile believing mutually exclusive 'stories'? I call you ignorant because you persist on terming the consensus of biblical scholars with far more education and a deeper understanding of their subject than you theological. I'm sorry. It is one of the greatest mysteries of all time: the whereabouts of Jesus between the ages of 12 and 30. I just watched a movie starring Morgan Freeman. Usually the King or Pope. Therefore they will jot down what they want to convey, I am not ignoring the fact that one addresses that all are mocking him, and the other addresses one of the men next to him repenting...So I'm going to help you out, Matthew was not present nor Luke at the time of the crucifixion. As long as you admit that it's a beginning and not the end al and be all of the argument. Why chop up the narrative flow and do it in such a way that your readers know you've edited out important parts of the story? Should that job not be reserved purely for a committee of tailors, who in due course and with much scholarly deliberation may indeed consent that the Emperor may or may not be naked based on the current level of research at this time and with due respect to their esteemed colleagues in the field and so forth. I used to have religious visions after ingesting orange sunshine. It was and still is Jewish law that all Jewish boys read the Torah. Have you studied the period? I never stated or even meant to state that the secular sources I cited back up the gospel tales of Jesus--nothing does except the gospels themselves which are for the most part unreliable and in key respects, inconsistent. These questions still remain. The Lost Years of Jesus: ... This post and your last clearly demonstrate that you are not up to date on the subject in any way, shape or form and I resent the snow job as much as I resent your characterization of historical beliefs as theological ones (i.e., faith-based). I am sick of having you repeatedly term mainstream biblical scholarship which I subscribe to in this respect as a theological belief when it's everything but and for your information, I'm the farthest thing from a theist. that's a falsity, your honor.... The control motivations of the church, and the majority of religions for that matter, seem plainly obvious but I do believe Jesus lived, as did Buddah and other spiritual leaders, and that he was a gifted messenger, a guru, a shaman, a messiah for his time - regardless of the misuse of his story by people leading organized religion. this is NOT worth the time. No real direct proof, but the short span of time that this cult grew after his alleged death and the context in which he lived and died, makes his existence as a man highly plausible. The Cato the Younger I know of was born ca 95 BC and died 46 BC, well before Tacitus was born. Until there is another source other than the NT author mentioning him and his miracles, I will not 'believe' he existed. So what? but its not my opinion that counts. Today, scholars are forming a clearer picture of his life by re-examining stories in the New Testament gospels and connecting them with new archeological discoveries. Going from what I've seen of your posts, I doubt you'll take the sound advice given to you by robertallen1, someone who clearly knows more on the subject then you, and do some reading on the subject. I'm also not from the USA as it seems you've assumed. Now the problem, man will seek his own, always, man wants to be worshiped, man loves himself more than God, so wanting equal rights for all people, minimizing suffering, giving a better living to the next generation is near to a fantasy. The Buddha Religion - 112 min - ★ 7.94 This documentary for PBS by award-winning filmmaker David...; The Secret Family of Jesus Religion - 100 min - ★ 7.13 This is the narrative of the intrigue that Dan Brown failed...; The Story of Lord Buddha Religion - ★ 7.65 The Buddha, the founder of the great religious philosophy...; The Naked Truth Religion - ★ 7.75 Documentary … If you meant the Gospels, why didn't you simply say so rather than employ the circumlocution "the books in question." lol "Was it written in English". ISBN 0-449-13039-8; Elizabeth Clare Prophet. With Rod Colbin, William Marshall, Sathya Sai Baba, Swami Kriyananda. As I was just mentioning to Achem, I would love to read your version of the story of Onan. It begins, "It must have been the Irish who built the pyramids for no one else could carry up the bricks. It's not even contentious. So I don't see how this does not go in my favor. No, I'm not another another Gibbons, but religion is an awfully huge factor, too huge for my taste. Most popularly, those people of the Caucasus Mountains. I highly recommend an extensive knowledge of the dead sea scrolls and the assorted apocrypha before attempting to decode it. I´ve never denied the existence of an historical Jesus, I merely point out who he was, something scholars obviously are too afraid to do. Neither Josephus, Suetonious, Pliny the Elder, Lucian or Tacitus hold any information to support the theological belief points you mention. Charles Guignebert argued that "So long as there is that possibility [that Tacitus is merely echoing what Christians themselves were saying], the passage remains quite worthless". XD. The whole documentary is about him yet they never use his birth name Joshua Benhur. You're going to need a lot more than lack of firsthand sources to be able to justify your skepticism. Well, I´d rather be ignorant than falling flat on the face before the erroneus theological beliefs you present as "historical events". : Elizabeth Clare Prophet. But anyway, lets go back to you. Honestly now, if you assert, it's up to you prove. Well, both Cato the younger and Tacitus mentions Chrestus. This list could be much longer but I think you'll get the picture. It is ironic, and counter-intuitive, but true, that much of contemporary American English is more "original" than contemporary British English. So if you don't accept his teachings, or that he did miracles, or anything else, why are you so butthurt when other people don't agree that he existed? This is for you If I was to read what you recommended, which is a novel based on a point of view nevertheless an opion of one individual that you have let influence your point of view, why whould you share such BS to me? There is actually nothing historical that supports the theological beliefs you express concerning the baptism and crucifiction stories of christian mythology. First you contend that the historical "Jesus" is a theological fraud and then propose James the Just who died 62-69 a.d. as a candidate for this ostensibly fraudulent position.

Oconto County News, Razer Electra Price, Calphalon Precision Vs Classic, Decatur County Property Records Search, Moroccan Last Names Starting With B, 2002 Subaru Impreza Sedan, Natural Hair Dye For Instant Black Hair, How Old Was Travis Turner In A Princess For Christmas, Just Busted Tennessee, Aged Smelter Demon Armor, How To Write I Am Bts Army In Korean,